[Moo] When will it be prime time?

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[Moo] When will it be prime time?

dukeofgaming
I have been a MooTools fan ever since I knew the framework, however, I now understand that the new direction is prime.

I understand that there have been lessons learnt, and practices like extending native prototypes had to be abandoned.

I understand that the new direction is to adopt the microframeworks apprach and new best practices and libraries that involve package/dependency management and server side javascript with Node.

What I don't understand is why none of this exciting direction has been communicated to the evaporating user base. I think MooTools still has a nice community, and I bet part of it is dormant.

Why not fill-in the community with a simple blog post in the MooTools blog?, why not make a simple website for prime?, why not publish some examples with prime?

I don't feel confident anymore about using MooTools because I feel that my code will be already dead. I don't feel confident about using prime because I don't know what it's direction will be, is it an academic experiment?, is it already being used in production environments?, is it being used at all?, is it a serious project or just toy code?

If people started using prime it would evolve quicker, but right now all that is happening from my point of view is that the MooTools community is slowly being alienated away.

So why not let us know what your plans and vision with prime are?, I think a simple blog post and a very simple website would do to reinvigorate the community.

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[Moo] Re: When will it be prime time?

utan
Second that,

What assures me that Prime won't die just like Mootools did?

A blog post in Mootools website telling that the code will be only maintained for bug fixes would be excellent so newcomers doesn't make the big mistake to learn something that it's dead and only exist in History as one of the greatest frameworks that existed...
 
You have to do this just like the creator of Prototype framework did, he as main creator posted the end of Prototype framework in a place where everybody could read, and you guys have done nothing at all to tell, I had to read about a new framework called Prime from mootools devs and read further post to know that Mootools is dead...

You guys must at least with courage tell that you made a mistake and Mootools died because wrong paths were taken...

I am not going to use Prime till I see you have marked a plan and that you will not let it die so easily..

regards UTAN

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[Moo] Re: When will it be prime time?

stratboy
In reply to this post by dukeofgaming
http://www.flibbr.com/blog?id=1

Il giorno domenica 18 agosto 2013 22:40:33 UTC+2, dukeofgaming ha scritto:
I have been a MooTools fan ever since I knew the framework, however, I now understand that the new direction is prime.

I understand that there have been lessons learnt, and practices like extending native prototypes had to be abandoned.

I understand that the new direction is to adopt the microframeworks apprach and new best practices and libraries that involve package/dependency management and server side javascript with Node.

What I don't understand is why none of this exciting direction has been communicated to the evaporating user base. I think MooTools still has a nice community, and I bet part of it is dormant.

Why not fill-in the community with a simple blog post in the MooTools blog?, why not make a simple website for prime?, why not publish some examples with prime?

I don't feel confident anymore about using MooTools because I feel that my code will be already dead. I don't feel confident about using prime because I don't know what it's direction will be, is it an academic experiment?, is it already being used in production environments?, is it being used at all?, is it a serious project or just toy code?

If people started using prime it would evolve quicker, but right now all that is happening from my point of view is that the MooTools community is slowly being alienated away.

So why not let us know what your plans and vision with prime are?, I think a simple blog post and a very simple website would do to reinvigorate the community.

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[Moo] Re: When will it be prime time?

Jeff Dunlap
I started working with MooTools early this year and chose it because it looked like I could write cleaner, more maintainable code via classes instead of JQuery.

I have to admit that when first compared them, JQuery without a doubt looked much easier to learn. Their website and examples perfectly show you how to get up and running right away.

Nevertheless, I chose to learn MooTools because of its classes.  So far, I am very happy with what I have done with MooTools and my classes are very clean, reliable and well organized.

A few things that run through my mind are:

1) can you write clean code with JQ? I am far from being a JavaScript expert and I've written some horrific JS code. Moo allows me to write very clean and maintainable code.

2) I am guessing that the number of free widgets and community support is far better by going JQ but what other benefits do you get with JQ?

3) I am assuming that future browser issues will not cause me problems by developing with Moo. What are your thoughts on this?

At this moment, #3 is the only concern that I have. I plan to make a mobile version of my app (hope that this will not be a problem using Moo).

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:57:58 AM UTC-5, stratboy wrote:
http://www.flibbr.com/blog?id=1

Il giorno domenica 18 agosto 2013 22:40:33 UTC+2, dukeofgaming ha scritto:
I have been a MooTools fan ever since I knew the framework, however, I now understand that the new direction is prime.

I understand that there have been lessons learnt, and practices like extending native prototypes had to be abandoned.

I understand that the new direction is to adopt the microframeworks apprach and new best practices and libraries that involve package/dependency management and server side javascript with Node.

What I don't understand is why none of this exciting direction has been communicated to the evaporating user base. I think MooTools still has a nice community, and I bet part of it is dormant.

Why not fill-in the community with a simple blog post in the MooTools blog?, why not make a simple website for prime?, why not publish some examples with prime?

I don't feel confident anymore about using MooTools because I feel that my code will be already dead. I don't feel confident about using prime because I don't know what it's direction will be, is it an academic experiment?, is it already being used in production environments?, is it being used at all?, is it a serious project or just toy code?

If people started using prime it would evolve quicker, but right now all that is happening from my point of view is that the MooTools community is slowly being alienated away.

So why not let us know what your plans and vision with prime are?, I think a simple blog post and a very simple website would do to reinvigorate the community.

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Re: [Moo] Re: When will it be prime time?

nutron
1) can you write clean code with JQ? I am far from being a JavaScript expert and I've written some horrific JS code. Moo allows me to write very clean and maintainable code.

You can write clean code with anything. JavaScript is the language here. MooTools just gives you nice tools and encourages you to use strong OO methodologies. But underneath it's all JavaScript. I had a conversation with Bill Scott (of Netflix) and he put it to me this way:


After hearing me talk about the reusability and extensibility patterns built into MooTools, he made an excellent point: He knows enough about JavaScript to have his own methods for making use of JavaScript’s inheritance mechanisms. In other words, he uses jQuery for DOM manipulation and effects and for some of its plugins, but when he writes his own code, he has his own class system (I don’t think he used the word “class” though – but basically some sort of factory to create reusable and extendable objects).

There's nothing stopping you from using jQuery and writing beautiful code. It's a little harder, and you have to work at it yourself a little, sure, but it's still just JavaScript. For more, see http://jqueryvsmootools.com
 

2) I am guessing that the number of free widgets and community support is far better by going JQ but what other benefits do you get with JQ?

You get a lot more help. You get a bigger community, meet-ups, and lots of blog posts and tutorials and books. But, most importantly, you get a job market. Go search around for front-end jobs that list anything OTHER than jQuery. This also applies the other way around; if you're a company choosing a framework, go find a front-end candidate with MooTools on his/her resume. It's nearly impossible to find us.
 
3) I am assuming that future browser issues will not cause me problems by developing with Moo. What are your thoughts on this?

The dev team remains committed to releasing updates to address such browser issues. I know that they're working on 1.5.0 right now in anticipation of IE11.
 
At this moment, #3 is the only concern that I have. I plan to make a mobile version of my app (hope that this will not be a problem using Moo).

FWIW, I have a mobile app (http://thanx.com - mobile version at http://app.thanx.com) running MooTools. Works great. 


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Re: [Moo] Re: When will it be prime time?

dukeofgaming
Interesting stuff, however, I have the community has yet to find out if prime is supposed to be something serious or just an experiment (or a serious experiment?).

Doing OO in vanilla javascript, like doing sort of architecture in a language without a framework, leads to poor design & maintainability... I have yet to find an OO javascript framework that can compare to MooTools, but then again, I do not feel confident about using MooTools anymore, and I think this is a shared sentiment by the community.

It appears that prime is supposed to make MooTools exciting again, but nobody appears to have an answer on that the direction of prime will have :(

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:28:54 PM UTC-4, Nutron wrote:
1) can you write clean code with JQ? I am far from being a JavaScript expert and I've written some horrific JS code. Moo allows me to write very clean and maintainable code.

You can write clean code with anything. JavaScript is the language here. MooTools just gives you nice tools and encourages you to use strong OO methodologies. But underneath it's all JavaScript. I had a conversation with Bill Scott (of Netflix) and he put it to me this way:


After hearing me talk about the reusability and extensibility patterns built into MooTools, he made an excellent point: He knows enough about JavaScript to have his own methods for making use of JavaScript’s inheritance mechanisms. In other words, he uses jQuery for DOM manipulation and effects and for some of its plugins, but when he writes his own code, he has his own class system (I don’t think he used the word “class” though – but basically some sort of factory to create reusable and extendable objects).

There's nothing stopping you from using jQuery and writing beautiful code. It's a little harder, and you have to work at it yourself a little, sure, but it's still just JavaScript. For more, see http://jqueryvsmootools.com
 

2) I am guessing that the number of free widgets and community support is far better by going JQ but what other benefits do you get with JQ?

You get a lot more help. You get a bigger community, meet-ups, and lots of blog posts and tutorials and books. But, most importantly, you get a job market. Go search around for front-end jobs that list anything OTHER than jQuery. This also applies the other way around; if you're a company choosing a framework, go find a front-end candidate with MooTools on his/her resume. It's nearly impossible to find us.
 
3) I am assuming that future browser issues will not cause me problems by developing with Moo. What are your thoughts on this?

The dev team remains committed to releasing updates to address such browser issues. I know that they're working on 1.5.0 right now in anticipation of IE11.
 
At this moment, #3 is the only concern that I have. I plan to make a mobile version of my app (hope that this will not be a problem using Moo).

FWIW, I have a mobile app (http://thanx.com - mobile version at http://app.thanx.com) running MooTools. Works great. 


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